Bathroom bullshit redux
GENDER SEGREGATION / I was called entitled, insensitive, transsexual (as an insult)
Ivan Coyote / Vancouver / Thursday, November 17, 2011
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A couple of months ago  I wrote a column here called “Dear Lady in the Women’s Washroom” (Xtra #472, Sept 22). I wrote it shortly after returning from a visit to Granville Island with my sweetheart, where I had just endured yet another gender-panic-related “bathroom incident.”

This particular time, a woman had screeched at the top of her lungs when I had entered the “ladies” washroom, glared at me as I bolted for a stall, and then spoke loudly and derisively about me to her friend while I was peeing. I came straight home and belted out a column.

That column got a lot of comments online, and a fair bit of private email as well. I was called entitled, insensitive, transsexual (and yes, I think they meant this as an insult, believe it or not) and basically told me that my right to pee unmolested was less important than other women’s right to feel safe in a public washroom.

One person wrote to tell me, “Why not start a campaign or lobby or what have you — yes, you and all other trans men and trans women — get together and make it so that there is a washroom for those of you who have to ‘think’ harder than us straights as to what washroom to use. That way, you can pee or change your overloaded tampon in peace.”

I was also told, and I quote, “A man in the ladies room is a threat to my well being and I will not surrender my right to protect myself in order to avoid giving you an uneasy moment or hurt feelings,” and, “I will not sacrifice my own safety to yours.” I even received one email that contained a barely veiled threat of physical violence: a woman from somewhere in Texas told me that I “better not ever find myself in the same women’s washroom with her” as she “could not be held responsible” for what she might do to me, given her history with abusive men.

There were other, positive stories too, and I want to share some of them here as well. I also got messages from all over the world from folks thanking me, sharing their own stories of bathroom struggles, and telling me that they had printed up the column, laminated it and taped it up in bathrooms all over their college or university campuses.

I got a letter from a very sweet libra-rian in small-town Nova Scotia, the mother of a young trans man, who had printed up my column and marched it in to her supervisor. It was the final straw that convinced him to remove the gendered signs from the library’s two single-stall locking washrooms and make them both gender-neutral facilities. I did a reading there in person, just last week, and saw the evidence of this with my own two grateful eyes.

Last month I was at a university in Oregon for a show. A young kid slumped into the chair right behind me, just before my gig was about to start. I thought this kid was a young boy, lithe and handsome, about 14 years old, maybe. Then the kid started talking to me, blurting out almost in one long breath that she was 17 years old, turning 18 in just a week, but that she wouldn’t have made it far enough to see her 18th  birthday if someone hadn’t given her a copy of my story, "A Butch Roadmap." She told me it was the first time in her entire life it had dawned on her that she could actually be proud of who she was.

She told me that her single mom had sent her to live with her grandparents when she was about nine, because the new stepdad wasn’t into being a parent, and that her grandparents were rabid Catholics who had freaked when she came out of the closet, and when she cut off all of her hair and started presenting as more male or butch, they had kicked her out of their house altogether. She told me that she was couch-surfing and trying to finish her last year of high school but that the mean girls at her school had started a petition to keep her out of the girls’ washroom, and some of the boys had told her they were going to kick her ass if she even thought about using the boys’ bathroom.

Whew. Then the host got up to introduce me. She thanked the sponsors and then informed the room that for the duration of my show this evening, all of the public washrooms on the entire first floor had been designated as gender-neutral, and that if there were people who required gender-specific facilities, they were located on the second, third and fourth floors, and that if anyone found this inconvenient, then perhaps they could take a minute to reflect on this and consider how it might feel to have to go out of one’s way to find a suitable bathroom.

I felt the kid behind me relax her shoulders and let out a long, drawn breath of pent-up air.

So. I am writing this column because I am tired. I am tired of being told that this kid doesn’t matter, that my eight-year-old tomboy friend who dropped out of science camp because of bathroom trouble and bullying doesn’t matter, and that I don’t matter.

I am sick of hearing that my safety is not as important as other women’s. I resent the implication that butches and trans women and men are never survivors of male violence themselves, and thus do not also need a safe place to pee, and the suggestion that we should somehow be segregated in our own bathrooms so we don’t bother the rest of you normal people, is simply fucked beyond belief.

I also want to state again, for what seems like the one millionth time, that single-stall, lockable, gender-neutral washrooms would solve all of our problems. I refuse to be divided and conquered on this issue. I will not allow myself to be placed in opposing corners of the ring when it comes to all of our safety. I call bullshit.


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Reader Comments


 
trail blazing to the potty
polarization is unnecessary when it comes to taking care of basic human functions. pee and let pee. As we tell the kids .... go in, do your business, wash your hands, get back to life!
Jennifer Smith, Portsmouth New Hampshire
11/17/11 7:30 PM EST
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How to be welcome
When you wrote, "...all of the public washrooms on the entire first floor had been designated as gender-neutral...", it sparked a memory for me. I was running a meeting for our church's association, and one of the first things I tend to do is to point out the bathrooms. :) This church happened to have two one-room jobs at the back, and I said casually that we could certainly treat them as unisex bathrooms ("gender neutral" would have been a better phrase and I'm remembering that for next time) for this meeting. Turns out there was a trans or other genderqueer person sitting at the back of the room who felt incredibly welcomed by this simple statement. As our church promotes its "Extravagent Welcome," I was really glad to hear that. (I enjoyed hearing you speak in SF last year)
Jennie, SF Bay Area California
11/17/11 7:34 PM EST
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Ummmmm
I question your positioning of Butches ( who are females ) with trans men ( who by definition are men ). You say that you are tired of reading that your safety is not as important as that of other women, what does this mean, are you identifying as a woman or as a man, just trying to see clearly here. This is not about wether or not men can also be survivors of male violence and I find it disingenuous to place this incident as such. I wish you gender neutral washrooms, truly, as this would afford us women, who for millennia have been raped, abused and murdered some relief. I myself am a queer woman of transsexual origin, I know what discrimination is about, I know what transphobia looks like and I also know when a dude is a dude in a woman's washroom. My Butch partner to whom I'm happily married in a same sex marriage has been the object of similar reactions by other women in washrooms designated for females and gets that her appearance can be disturbing and even trigger reactions and does whatever she can to bring clarity to these situations. She understands and tried to ensure that other women not be traumatized more than necessary. When the binary system is done away with and that other options are made available, I'll be glad for it but in the meantime, there are very few spaces that are relatively safe for a woman to be in without continually worrying about men in their midst, is this really so difficult to comprehend or is the fact of transitioning erase all that one knows of oppression, sexism and violence. Saying something is bullshit doesn't make it so.
Joelle, Keswick Ontario
11/17/11 7:38 PM EST
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.
"single-stall, lockable, gender-neutral washrooms would solve all of our problems." Of course it would! But what about when it's economically or practically not feasible? More discussion about that, please.
emile, vancouver bc
11/17/11 7:38 PM EST
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fact
FACT: there is not, nor has there ever been, a problem with trans folks assaulting non trans folks in washrooms. FACT: there is and has always been a problem with non trans folks assaulting and harassing trans folks in bathrooms. FACT: the onus is not on trans people alone to create single-stall gender neural washrooms. The onus is on all of us to stop making assumptions about other people's genders, and ultimaely to stop thinking we have a right to assault people based on those assumptions. This is about Ivan's and other folks' right to use the washroom she feels is appropriate for her, and being verbally and otherwise assaulted for it based on fucked up assumptions by others. Period. This is about respecting that no, neither you nor anyone else actually know who is who in those washrooms (i.e. the comment "I also know when a dude is a dude in a woman's washroom." -- no, you don't); and the ongoing assumption that you or anyone else does and has a right to lash out violently for it, is something i call complete and utter bullshit on.
romham, vancouver bc
11/17/11 7:53 PM EST
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Everyone has to Pee
I am sorry that you and others have to go through that. Screaming at the top of your lungs is appropriate, when someone is truly threatened. But, if someone is just passing you as they are going into a stall to take care of their personal business, there is nothing to scream about. Women are just as vulnerable outside the bathroom door as they are inside it. It's too bad that we can't all just be grown ups and realize that everyone has to pee. Geez, I wish you could reply with something like,"Actually I am an author, I love the power of words and I make my living with them, therefore, I was able to read and comprehend the "Ladies" sign." Thank you for sharing your experience to support and educate others. I am NOT an author and please excuse all spelling and gramatical errors.
Dana, Vancouver WA, USA
11/17/11 8:07 PM EST
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a clarification
Joelle, not all butches are women. And while i abhor and challenge the ongoing automatic conflation of the two, *some* trans dude type folks *are* butch identified, myself included. But predictably, even woman-identified folks don't get to simply be who they are and be in the "women's bathroom" if other women perceive them to be outside their narrow (mis)understanding of what that can acceptably look like. So all this talk about "being concerned" about what happens to women in washrooms isn't really the whole story, is it? How sad! The world isn't --nor has it ever been-- so clear cut. Thank goodness!
romham, vancouver bc
11/17/11 8:22 PM EST
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F-A-C-T
Fact is, I never said the onus was on who you label trans folk to create gender neutral washrooms. Fact is, it is a criminal act to assault anyone anywhere. Fact is, making the assumption that Butches and trans men are the same is incorrect, for the most part, Butches are female identified though masculine in presentation and attitude. Fact is, no amount of ranting will validate male identified people being in women,s washrooms. If Ivan is female identified then this discussion is mote but if Ivan is stating a trans man identity then he needs to go to a dudes washroom. I am a woman of transsexual origin, I'm a queer woman to boot but I will not pee in any comfort if I know there's a man in the stall next to me. It is only when abuse and violence against women is finally dealt with that anyone will begin to feel safe and this is what I suggest should be the " cheval de bataille ".
Joelle, Keswick Ontario
11/17/11 8:29 PM EST
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I'm a 20 year old female-bodied queer in Vancouver
I met you at your show in Yellowknife this summer, briefly, and between that time and now I've been through an enormous shift in gender. I've gone from being comfortably female-identified, with perhaps a 60-75% male wardrobe, never having to deal with bathroom issues, to having to figure out exactly where on the butch-transmasculine-transguy-genderqueer continuum I fit. In the mean time, I've shed all female clothes, and scarcely a day goes by when I'm not mis-read as a young boy. I've had to ask to be exempt from washroom check duty at my job, because of the ruckus it's caused. Older folk coming up to my till have asked me if I'm old enough to work, and are always indignant and uncomfortable when I tell them that I'm 20 and female. This seemingly casual question is not honest curiosity - it's thinly-veiled gender policing. It appears to be completely subconscious, but it's always laced with violence. For those who think that this issue is trivial - I am still female-bodied. I grew up with just as much violence in the air around me as all the women who've stared me out of bathrooms have. I enter washrooms with the figure in the dress on the door to get the fuck away from men, to compose myself, to feel safe, just as much as you do. It's difficult to put into words how it feels to be robbed of the one safe space you have out in public by ciswomen who are completely oblivious to what it feels like to be forced to deal with this. It is not my job to make way for you, it's yours to keep spaces open and safe for everyone. If you still think this issue is offensive to you, try checking your cisprivilege and deal with your transphobia first before you mouth off at another person who's just trying to take a piss in peace. Thank you for writing this again, Ivan. People still need to hear this.
Diana, Vancouver BC
11/17/11 8:40 PM EST
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sigh
Joelle, have you even read this column? "I am sick of hearing that my safety is not as important as other women’s." Clearly identifies Ivan as a woman "other" implies something, no?), a person who has every right to be in the women's washroom, despite some people's discomfort with that. "I resent the implication that butches and trans women and men are never survivors of male violence themselves, and thus do not also need a safe place to pee" is completely NOT equating trans men with butches, pr saying they are the same thing, but is certainly acknowledging the reality that there is more to the question of who has the privilege to go piss where they please: folks for whom their gender is not challenged. Where did you read that Ivan is male identified? This discussion is indeed moot, though very informative. And now, i must leave this old tired ongoing argument to piss in the privacy and safety of my own home.
romham, vancouver bc
11/17/11 8:41 PM EST
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re:Sigh
Well, if Ivan is clearly female identified, this question of gender neutral washrooms seems a little strange to me. I am married to a female Butch who has been where Ivan speaks of but would never consider peeing in a washroom that welcomed males ( unless she was about to pee in her jeans ). I am a woman of transsexual origin though I do not identify as trans anything, just woman and female bodied.
Joelle, Keswick Ontario
11/17/11 8:48 PM EST
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one last thing
How sad it would be if the amazing sweet stories contained in this article were once again lost and drowned out under the debates about who can pee where. i've participated in that and apologize to Ivan and anyone else for the diversion. This stuff just gets my hackles up! It's so ridiculous, so insidious, so completely unnecessary, so hurtful, it's hard to not respond. But really, i'm going to instead take a moment to re-read the anecdotes here and remember: "I felt the kid behind me relax her shoulders and let out a long, drawn breath of pent-up air." Thanks for this, Ivan <3
romham, vancouver bc
11/17/11 8:53 PM EST
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Clarification
Hi Romham, Of course not and I was claer in stating that I was speaking about Butches that identify as female. For Butches who ID as male, then aren't they closer to the trans man without the T and such. Funny how I, a woman of transsexual origin, NEVER ever had any other woman challenge my right to be in a woman's washroom, wonder why that is. My Butch partner has been challenged foe her looks and as sad as that may be, she gets that because she comes off as masculine, this might trigger women, specially in the context of a washroom situation.She owns that she looks masculine and that this may unnerve other women. Being concerned about what happens to women in washrooms is exactly the whole story, it is women for the very great majority who are raped, abused and killed, not any other way. And please, do understand me, I'm cool with gender neutral washrooms if this is what some need. Just get it that most women of transsexual origin would have nothing to do with this idea as we already have our preferred washrooms as women.
Joelle, Keswick Ontario
11/17/11 8:53 PM EST
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I just have to pee.
I am a 41 year old woman. I am small breasted, a jeans and t-shirt kind of girl. I've had long hair, I've had short hair. Catholic school made me wear a kilt. I have been called sir my entire life. It's my biggest pet peeve. I will decide which toilet I should be pissing in and shouldn't have defend myself. Open your minds and see who you are looking at if you don't like who you see look in the mirror.
grace, Trenton Ontario
11/17/11 8:56 PM EST
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So bloody binary
So, Joelle, where do you reckon that butches who identify as neither male or female should pee. I eagerly await your reply with crossed legs
Angel, New York New York
11/17/11 9:18 PM EST
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I call bullshit!!!
I call bullshit! I walk this earth as butch, a handsome one I might add, and I panic almost every time I need to enter a public, gender specific washroom. I had a long battle with my employer, in San Francisco no less, about this very same issue. “single-stall, lockable, gender-neutral washrooms would solve all of our problems.” Now that is bullshit. It simply masks the issue that people need to understand that Gender and Gender is represented is varied. The lockable, gender-neutral bathrooms my employer installed caused even more problems (people took time to eh hem read the paper, nap, they changed the signs, I had to go down two flights of stairs to get to them and stand outside until people were done, etc). If available I will use a gender-neutral bathroom but it is a pipe dream to think these gender-neutral washrooms will be installed in every public place. I used the washroom at tinsel town the other day and an elderly Asian woman said in broken English that this was the women’s bathroom. I told her I was a woman and then she started to say I was so pretty and should grow my hair. She even touched my face. The real solution (to the wrong bathroom issue, not violence towards people) is to educate people that gender is not binary. On a good day when I get the looks or told this is a women’s bathroom, I politely say “I know, I am a woman.” On bad days, I either ignore them or rudely say “I know, I can read the international sign for woman on the door.” In most cases, they understand. I like to think that by saying something they might think twice before saying something or reacting to a similar situation in the future. As long as gender-specific bathrooms and spaces exist, the real solution is for people to assume and understand that the person who looks like they may not fit into the mold of what gender ought to be in this washroom, chose the bathroom that fits with gender they identify with.
Mitch, Vancouver British Columbia
11/17/11 9:20 PM EST
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It's not that simple
Joelle, you may never have had your female identity questioned as a trans woman, but in my experience that makes you a rarity. There was a case in London recently where the trans women workers at a stall in a flea market were thrown out because of the washroom issue. The owner of the market insisted that they were really men in dresses, not women at all and he didn't think they had a right to use either bathroom. If you have never experienced that, you have been very lucky indeed. You need to consider your privilege in "passing" for female -- that's how the cisgender outside world understands it. In dumping on your allies, people like Ivan, you're giving the finger to those people who are willing to recognize your femininity as real, not a faked version of true (genetic, born-woman) female embodiment. Fact is, if the Michigan Womyn's Music festival knew you were transsexual, they wouldn't let you in. How would you feel about that? Perhaps that would give you more sympathy for those who can't or won't pass as gender normative. I identify as gender queer and I use female washrooms because that seems like the less dangerous option. In most places, there are only two choices. Are you unaware of the extent to which non-gender normative people suffer from bladder and urinary tract problems due to their inability to pee in safety. Fact is, some straight gender-normative woman in a washroom surrounded by other women like her is in no danger from men. The only cisgender man who wanders into that washroom is going to turn red as a beet (assuming he's light-skinned enough for that to show) and high-tail it out of there as fast as he can. Nothing is more embarassing to men than finding themselves in the woman's can. Even claiming that this is a safety issue for women feels to me like complete bullshit. They're in no danger from genderqueer, butch or trans people. Rather it is completely the reverse -- and don't we all know it, to our cost. It's just not that fucking s
Alexis Wright, Toronto ON
11/17/11 9:35 PM EST
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Bullshit, yay
Hi MItch, This is more what I'm trying to get at, it's about communicating, about a little common sense. I like how you break this down, thank you. I'm a queer femme who gets what it is for a Butch in washrooms. Joelle
Joelle, Keswick Ontario
11/17/11 9:40 PM EST
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Simple
Hi Alexis, First off, I'm not a transwoman, that would be your characterization of someone like me. As for MWMF ( big ewwww on them ), they will let me in even knowing I'm of transsexual origin, they would not allow ( this is what I read ) that I openly announce that I am. You label my concern for women's safety as dumping, how interesting. Ivan identifies as female then I'm certainly not dumping on Ivan, no, what I was going on about is allowing men ( that includes trans men ) into what I consider a safe space for me as a woman. You preach about urinary tract problems, hello, I am post-op and have to deal with this sort of thing and it has zero to do with the ability to pee in safety. Am I privileged, most likely but then that can be said of most white, middle class people, male or female, what about you? Have you had a college education, maybe support, you know, not starving or wondering how you would pay for next months rent. You assume much about me without knowing me and I haven't said more than I do not agree that trans men should be in women's washrooms, wow, talk about lateral oppression. You openly try and put me in my place ( even though you assign the words to others, like Ivan ) by saying such nasty things as " willing to recognize me as female " really ?, wow. You'd think any woman, even a woman of transsexual origin would need anyone else's approval to be who she is, that is revealing to say the least. Understand this Alexis; I do not need yours or anyone else approval to be a woman simply because I am and as strange as this may be to you, I am actually pretty active within women's circles, both queer and feminist and yes, they understand from whence I came and have never tried to put my in my place or have me understand how " fortunate " I really am that they tolerate me or allow me access to their circles ( that are also mine ). So, way to go, brava.
Joelle, Keswick Ontario
11/17/11 10:02 PM EST
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Thanks!
I have experienced this 'bathroom incident' so many times and in all different parts of the world (U.S, UK, Sweden, Singapore, Malaysia, etc), so I understand how it feels like. Some airport security check even has gender segregation and I am usually sent back and forth between the 2 areas until the officers there settle their confuse.
Tam, Singapore Singapore
11/17/11 10:19 PM EST
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Butches
are women too Joelle! If you are not a butch than you have no idea what the experiences of Butches are. I do not know what it is to have a Transwomens experience nor would I be dismissive or state I "understood". Women look many ways and to presume a butch women has not had violence perpetrated against them by both men and women supports is plain silly. I deal with this issue all the time and like the author last year I wrote a piece about it, say why is my safety any less valued than someone who is presenting in a societal feminine way.Yes some days I am nice, kind understanding and educational. somedays I am sick and tiered of my safety being less valued, it is violence against me when someone screams or calls security, that is a policing action towards my body, soul, identity, I am violated every time others decide I am not what a women "should" look like. So please, share your experiences as a transwomen, the bathroom as in life in not a single narrative and violence is undefinable not matter who is the victim it is not oppression Olympics
Tee, Alameda US
11/18/11 1:21 AM EST
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You might reconsider the expression...
"rabid Catholics" I am pretty sure their bigotry had nothing to do with them being rabid. Your suggestion that it had anything to do with their religion is intolerant of you.
James, Austin TX
11/18/11 1:47 AM EST
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Trans feels threating? I call bullshit.
People who harass the gender-odd often claim the privilege to do so because trans folks *remind* them of a threat. But not only are the trans folks not a threat, the harassor's behaviour doesn't match their claim of feeling threatened. [- paragraph break -] Perhaps I am unusual in this, but if I perceive someone as a threat, I do not immediately harass, block, stinkeye, taunt, poke or grope them. Yet this happens to trans folks all the time. And yet the exclusion of trans folks is often justified because we (be we gender variant, MtF, FtM, intersexed, crossdressed, genderqueer, etc...) "remind" cis people of threatening males. But, in my experience, most (sensible) people do not respond to genuinely dangerous men by verbally taunting them. Given this, their reaction to trans folks looks more like simple bullying, thinly justified. [- paragraph break -] Think of all the other times people rationalize injustice by claiming entitlement to a clearly irrational feeling of safety: people who won't fly with female pilots or drive with female bus drivers; calling the cops on the homeless in upscale neighbourhoods; drug laws; racial profiling at airports; veteran draftees being spat on; sex-worker evictions; refusing out queers work as priests, youth workers and teachers; numerous historical examples involving the words "protecting our women from...;" don't ask don't tell (you're in a *war*, and you're afraid of *gays*?); speaking of which, how many wars have started because one side wanted to protect itself from a fabricated threat? [- paragraph break -] The claim that transphobic gender policing and systems that support it are justified because cis people mistake us for threats is just one more example of socially-sanctioned bullying.
Amy Fox, Vancouver BC
11/18/11 4:51 AM EST
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Accessible
How about making those gender neutral washrooms also 100% accessible too? Not all transfolk are fully able-bodied, seeing, hearing etc.
Axton, EastVan BC
11/18/11 5:01 AM EST
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My above comment in synopsis:
In a soundbite; in a rhetorical question: "If you really thought she was a male sexual predator, would you have pointed and laughed?"
Amy Fox, Vancouver BC
11/18/11 5:02 AM EST
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YES!
I am a fairly tall woman with short hair. For some reason this means that other women perceive me as male, often when I go into a women's washroom. On more than one occasion, as I go about my business in the closed stall, I overhear a heated conversation amongst the other women about what they should do about 'the man' in the bathroom. Sometimes they call security. I must say that the befuddled security guards are inevitably professional and courteous when they are confronted with the weird situation. I continue to be amazed, though, at the depth of our gender identities and how hurt I get by being misidentified.
Lesley Durham-McPhee, Ridgeway Ontario
11/18/11 10:34 AM EST
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Washroom safety
I agree with others who stated that the bathroom confrontations and bullying are not fueled by concern for safety but rather by homophobia and transphobia. A persons perceived gender is not sufficient reason to fear them or not. I agree single stall washrooms that are accessible to everyone are the answer to the immediate issue that (because transphobia and gender policing exist) there is undeniably an issue of safe access to facilities that are shared. But furthermore, having the facilities labeled by gender also forces people to label themselves according to a binary system that is clearly unable to account for the wide diversity of gender identities experienced. This forced identification is a way of telling people to assimilate. On a lighter note it may help finally get women washroom parity so we don't have to wait in long lines while men have unfettered access a choice of bathrooms. From a straight fem ally
Lia, Vancouver BC
11/18/11 11:55 AM EST
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Wow
I can't believe the infighting and arguing amongst people who SHOULD be on the same page.
Vanessa Willett, Whitehorse Yukon
11/18/11 12:05 PM EST
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This discussion goes beyond the washroom...
http://www.queerty.com/tn-couldnt-decide-whether-andrea-jones-is-male-or-female-so-they-arrested-her-20111116/ Bigotry, hatred and violence is something many people deal with on a daily basis. Trying to do the simplest things. Using a washroom, using a change room, shopping for clothing, holding a loved ones hand, joining a sports team or club, getting a driver's licence, going to the doctor, filling out a form, etc. etc. etc. Think of how many times in a single day gender is an issue or a question. It is far more often than a washroom visit. The queer person in the women's washroom isn't the problem. Everyone else is. Next thing you know we will have a nice spot at the back of a bus, a table at the back of the restaurant and separate drinking fountains for the LGBTQ among us. But that would NEVER happen would it??? Not in a civilized society! It isn't all about the "big" issues. It isn't all about the right to marry. It is also about the small details of everyday life. And before anyone comments that I must have some agenda or some pent up anger that I need to get over because of how I am treated, let me save you the trouble. I am a straight, married, mother of two. I have no agenda and I don't need to deal with this hatred on a daily basis. I am however an ally to those who do. And to those people I say... I welcome you into the washroom with the girl on the door if that is where you choose to be. I would say that I don't care which washroom you use, but that would be a lie. **I really, really do care.**
Carrie, Vancouver BC
11/18/11 12:16 PM EST
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Thank you Ivan
For continuing on (with your writing, with calling bullshit, with using the women's restroom every damn time you have to pee) even though tired. There is no easy answer, no quick fix. My hope is based in part on a phrase I heard years ago: Each one teach one. No, it's not my job to educate the world about gender variance. Not even my job every time I have to use the restroom. But sometimes, if I can respond in a way that is in some small way educational to those who may otherwise object to my presence (in a washroom, or in general); if we all sometimes do some educating, maybe change will come. Such is my hope. And I will remain a champion of strong, courageous women like Ivan.
Max, Sacramento California
11/18/11 3:37 PM EST
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Thanks Ivan!!!
I have had experiences like Ivan's and am so thankful for this article! Right on. It inspires me to take action to advocate for more gender-neutral restrooms at the college where I work. I agree with Ivan that everyone has the right to a convenient, stress-free place to pee, and that it is indeed mean, discriminatory "bullshit" for women to scream or make rude comments to butch women (or transpeople). I quote commenter Romham: "This is about respecting that no, neither you nor anyone else actually know who is who in those washrooms (i.e. the comment "I also know when a dude is a dude in a woman's washroom." -- no, you don't); and the ongoing assumption that you or anyone else does and has a right to lash out violently for it, is something i call complete and utter bullshit on." Yes!!
Alison, Palo Alto California
11/18/11 4:18 PM EST
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About time
It's about time that we change our bathrooms. Everyday I walk into the women's bathroom at my University and have to almost sneak in behind everyone so that they don't have too much of a problem. I could go to the a different building across the walk way but hell why should I. Every quarter we are given a survey to voice improvements as the "gay/lesbian" population in our school and I always say a gender neutral restroom is needed, guess they figure it isn't really "gay/lesbian" necessary. Hell even if I wasn't genderqueer I would love a private bathroom. Wouldn't we all!
Taylor, Seattle US
11/20/11 2:33 AM EST
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Some things.
We can't wish immediate change for equality and such, there's always an arm of people who are less accepting. Not having my ID in my proper gender has sort of excluded me from bathrooms, but i suppose i'll have my share of troubles. It would be awfully nice if we think ahead for next generation and teach kids acceptance..
Saige ellen, coquitlam bc
11/22/11 9:25 PM EST
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outsiders perspective
I am a gay somewhat ''straight-acting'' man. I have to say that as awesome as they are to talk about, I think root of this problem goes beyond trans, butch/femme, hetronormative issues. It seems to me that the major problems are to do with women's reactions in the bathroom. This might come off as sexist but if women (yes women, this is a woman's issue) dropped the hysterics and theatrics such as screaming, or crying or bitching or yelling or slapping that accompany their reactions to various body types in ''their'' washrooms then this would not be an issue. Everyone would be able to piss and shit in peace. And as a side note with regard to ''feeling safe'' presumably from big evil dangerous men, could someone please explain how a sign on a bathroom door repels rapists and criminals from entering? I don't see how it would.
George, Brandon Manitoba
11/25/11 1:10 PM EST
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It's a massive cultural problem.
It's because our entire culture sees men (or anything they perceive to be male) as deranged sexual perverts. They're not comfortable with men being in women's washrooms; they're not comfortable with men being in a women's store; they're not comfortable with men being around children. Many, many women are raised to believe than any and all men are evil and will take the first opportunity to rape or assault them. A masculine figure invading in any woman's 'safe' space is immediately considered an attack. I know around here a woman using a man's washroom is generally fine... (On my urging, my girlfriend in high school often used the men's room because there was no line up. Walk in, go in a stall, do your business, wash your hands, leave. Don't stop and try and chat - that's not how a men's room works.) Not one person ever made any sort of deal out of it. If I (a male) had walked into the women's room...
Adam, Regina Saskatchewan
11/25/11 7:40 PM EST
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Puzzled
I want to ask a general question: How could anyone be afraid of the other people in the bathroom with you, unless they specifically act in a threatening manner? I have been sexually assaulted on the train; that doesn't make me afraid of the other people on the train. I've been sexually assaulted &amp;amp; physically abused by people I was in a relationship with; that doesn't make me afraid to date other people in the future. So to say that a man or masculine-looking person sitting in the stall next to you is somehow threatening to you... well, that is just about the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Have you heard the phrase &amp;quot;Nature's calling&amp;quot;? Nature. Meaning it is something we all do, &amp;amp; it is natural. Who cares what the genitalia or self-identification of the people in there with you happens to be? I simply don't understand that sort of thinking. Get the heck over yourselves.
Cassandra, Chicago IL-US
11/30/11 6:41 PM EST
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Oh I see...
So why didn't YOU go into the MENS? Oh right because of safety concerns.... I see. But you can't understand the Woman's safety concerns...I see it all so clearly now.
Oh I see, belfast belfast
01/13/12 10:41 AM EST
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Oh I See...
From your article you wrote on March 10 2011: "If you are at all uncomfortable with sexual advances by men, I would suggest you stick with the “Ladies’” room, regardless of how much of an actual lady you might be." What is it you do not understand again? Why this Woman doesn't want to share a bathroom with men? Bullshit? Hysterical?
Oh I see, belfast belfast
01/13/12 11:04 AM EST
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