Protesters demand Pride Toronto reverse censorship decision
PRIDE / Organization bans "Israeli apartheid"
Scott Dagostino / National / Tuesday, May 25, 2010
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UPDATE MAY 26 – About 100 gay and lesbian people gathered at the Dundonald St offices of Pride Toronto (PT) on May 25 to protest the organization’s decision to censor the term “Israeli apartheid” from this year’s Pride celebration.

As the crowd chanted “Whose Pride? Our Pride!” and “Resign! Resign! Resign!”  visibly nervous PT board co-chair Genevieve D’Iorio – separated from the protesters by an iron fence and police guard – told media that “complaints of discriminatory and exclusionary messaging” led PT to ban the phrase “Israel apartheid” from the July 4 parade.

“This is a terrible day in Pride’s history,” says Elle Flanders, spokesperson for Queers Against Israeli Apartheid (QuAIA), the Palestinian rights group so obviously the target of the move. “If we had taken out Totally Naked Toronto Men or Dykes on Bikes, or other people who have offended other people, we wouldn’t have a Pride.”

“We’re more than happy that people come in and march for the rights of queers in Palestine and queers in Israel,” says D’Iorio. “But the reality is that this particular term has been the crux.”

D’Iorio says city and corporate sponsors are threatening to pull funding, and banning the phrase “Israeli apartheid” is the best position PT organizers could take. Pride simply wouldn’t happen, she says, without the city’s financial and in-kind support.

“This decision was long overdue and it’s the right decision,” says lawyer Martin Gladstone. “The broad-based community, virtually all of our political and civic leaders, the sponsors and our stakeholders all think it’s the right decision.”

Gladstone created the anti-QuAIA video Reclaiming Our Pride, and almost singlehandedly led the movement to lobby the city and PT sponsors to kick QuAIA out of the parade.

“Martin Gladstone has been an effective lobbyist, and I doff my hat to him,” says Flanders. “But this whole situation is due to the beef of this one particular right-wing guy with his right-wing politics.... If he’s got something to say, why don’t we get to have something to say?”

Protesters at the Pride Toronto press conference.
(David Walberg photo)
“Nobody’s censoring free speech,” replies Gladstone, who was not at the protest, choosing instead to speak with Xtra later over the phone. “But they have to grow up. Like every other recipient of public money or corporate money, there are compliance issues. Pride has no choice.”

“This isn’t a free speech issue,” Gladstone continues. “They can go anywhere and march, wherever they want, but it’s not what Pride’s sponsors and our stakeholders and our funders sign up for.... They’re hurting our Pride parade.”

Tim McCaskell, a long-time gay community activist and educator who did attend the protest, and who also participated in Toronto’s earliest Pride marches, vehemently disagrees.

“Any kind of human rights violation affects queers directly, and those struggles have always been present at Pride,” he says. 

“If Pepsi can march in Pride, if the Bank of Montreal can march in Pride, if the Canadian fucking military recruitment office can march in Pride, why can’t these queer people with a political agenda – whether you agree with it or not – march in Pride?” says playwright Brad Fraser, spokesman for the newly created Pride Coalition for Free Speech. “Shutting down QuAIA leads to someone else getting shut down next.” 

PT executive director Tracey Sandilands insists that, because of QuAIA’s message, many potential Pride participants “don’t feel welcome because of their faith.” 

“I don’t even know what that means,” says Flanders. “Have they never seen dissent? What is so threatening here, other than a bunch of signs saying, ‘End the Israeli occupation?’“

“We’re 30 percent down on our sponsorship from last year,” says Sandilands. “And many potential sponsors – no, I won’t say who – have said they’re concerned that Pride is getting involved with political issues that we shouldn’t be getting involved in.... We can’t move forward allowing one group with one viewpoint and one particular phrase that everyone finds offensive to the detriment of 20 or 30 other groups who also consider themselves part of our community.” 

“We’re not just some fringe group,” says Flanders. “I was on the board of Pride three years ago.... I was asked to create a human rights contingent and built up the politics of Pride, but simultaneously, Pride was saying, ‘Can you keep it small?’ They want to have a little politics but not so much that it spoils the party.”

PT, she says, represents “a new group of people riding the wave of civil rights that we’ve managed to gain through sweat and labour and activism just like this: noisy people saying, ‘We demand to be heard’ and speaking for those who aren’t heard. Pride has somehow forgotten about that.”

In spite of PT’s decision to censor QuAIA, Sandilands says Pride’s growth from “a little grassroots march” is a great step for global human rights.

“The fact that we are as big as we are gives us the unique opportunity and responsibility to take a stand on issues affecting queer people in other countries and actually be heard, get global media and make a difference,” she says, noting that Pride will focus instead on the many countries that have no queer rights at all.

McCaskell vows that, ban or no, QuAIA’s message will get out at Pride.

“I’ve been arrested before on free speech issues, but I’m willing to be arrested again if that’s what it takes,” he says. “You can be damn sure that we’ll be there.”

Flanders says, “They want to make this all go away, but politics are a part of Pride. It’s us this year; it’ll be somebody else next year.”  

Watch our video report from the protest:



>> Read the Pride Toronto board resolution to disallow the term "Israeli apartheid" (PDF)
 

UPDATE MAY 25

Pride Toronto held a press conference this morning to announce that, following a contentious 4-3 vote by its board last week, the organization intends to ban the use of the term "Israeli apartheid" from any messaging in the Pride parade on July 4. About 80 QuAIA members and supporters turned out to protest the move, chanting "Whose Pride? Our Pride!" and "Resign! Resign! Resign!"

Though Pride Toronto insists the action isn't "directed at any one group," the decision affects the group Queers Against Israeli Apartheid (QuAIA). Pride Toronto executive director Tracey Sandilands and board co-chairs Genevieve D'lorio and Margaret Ngai told the jeering crowd that the term "Israel apartheid" has led to "complaints of discriminatory and exclusionary messaging."

The issue "has escalated to the point where Pride Toronto's festival is in a state of operational crisis," D'Iorio told the crowd. With the City of Toronto and corporate sponsors threatening to pull funding, she insists, the board has rescued the Pride festival from cancellation.

"They're not going to take away the funding," says playwright Brad Fraser, part of The Pride Coalition for Free Speech. "There's this pervasive fear being built up that bad things are going to happen if you let QuAIA march, but they would be insane to cut funding to the largest festival in Toronto!"

Pride Toronto's decision to censor the messaging may head off the June 14th vote on funding by Toronto City Council, but Fraser says Pride Toronto has made a huge mistake in caving on free speech. "It's not going to be easy for them," he says.

Check back soon for more on this story - including interviews with Pride Toronto organizers and QuAIA activists.



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Reader Comments


 
Pride Toronto Inc. bans lawful political speech
Queers Against Israeli Apartheid (QuAIA) is an LGBT group that is part of the Toronto queer community, that campaigns for queer and other human rights, and that engages in lawful political speech. // There is absolutely no logical, reasonable, or legal justification whatsoever for banning an LGBT group -- or its choice of words -- from Pride. This is censorship, plain and simple -- i.e., disagreement with the applicability of a term that is defined in international law, leading to the banning of that term. // Shame on Pride Toronto for caving into pressures from the Zionist/Israel Lobby, Conservatives/right-wingers, homophobes, and other bigots.
Rick, London Ontario
05/25/10 2:10 PM EST
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incompetence and more
Pride Toronto should have waited to see what happened at City Hall. It could not have known how it would end up and it is highly unlike that the City would have taken away everything without giving them options. Then, it could at least not have looked so incompetent. That said, I realize that the pro-Israel group and some city counsellors basically blackmailed the board. Finally, if Pride Toronto says that they have been treatened with violence, I am pretty sure it wasn't from QaIA and their supporters. Is the police informed? I want those who treated Pride Toronto with violence prosecuted. This is one really ugly face of the pro-Israel side.
zezi, Toronto Ontario
05/25/10 2:14 PM EST
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Just ONE Day ?
There's 365 days in a year. Why can't 1 (one) day (Pride) be when we can simply enjoy the parade free of ugly Middle Eastern politics ? How would QAIA like it if I marched with a sign reading - STOP USING WOMAN AND CHILDREN TO BLOW THINGS UP - or - STOP KILLING GAY PEOPLE IN PALESTINE ! Honestly, get a life and leave it alone - even if it's just for one day.
Jeff Taylor, Toronto Ontario
05/25/10 2:25 PM EST
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Who Cares What City Hall Does
Pride Toronto has once again let down the Gay community. This group as ever right to be in the Parade and in any other events that Pride puts on. Just goes to show that straight people are running pride and telling us gays what we can and can not do.... City Hall does not speak for Toronto Gay Community...The only reason Toronto City Hall is in it at all is for Tourist DOLLARS and nothing more...So how dare they say how we can hold a event... Queers Against Israeli Apartheid (QuAIA) is an LGBT we will march together regardless what Pride Toronto has stated we have a right and they can not stop...I ask all to join and march with them.... Pride Toronto does not speak for us now or in the future we do not recognize you as you have shown that you do not really care about Gays but you care about the all might dollar....
DJ, Toronto Ontario
05/25/10 2:25 PM EST
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I side with the Pride committee on this
After watching last years parade I was filled with anger at the anti Israeli protest that was allowed to march. My understanding of Pride is a forum for us to promote and gain visibility for GAY rights. It is not for general statements of political views, there are far more forums for that type of thing than there are for us to gain the recognition of injustice because of sexual orientation. I personally have nothing against anyone wishing to express an opinion on a political matter however to do this in the middle of a Pride parade was sheer nonsense. Israel is practically the only country in that section of the world that does not actively persecute us. If you look at the general ideology of most Muslim states they are very Anti GAY and will imprison or kill us and typically do. Do I need to remind people of Malawi or Iraq and their abominable treatment of our brothers and sisters. Keep your opinions to the venue in which they belong. The pride parade is a celebration of who we are what we have accomplished and where we want to go. It is not for general political statements that do not affect us as a sexual minority community.
Scott, Edmonton Alberta
05/25/10 2:29 PM EST
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Corporate Sponsors
I would really like to know which of Toronto Pride's corporate sponsors have expressed interest in withdrawing support, or if that's Pride-created boogeyman.
Dan, Toronto ON
05/25/10 2:31 PM EST
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Scott's opinion = misinformed, illogical
IN FACT, the only real requirements for participation in Pride are: (1) part or supportive of the LGBT community, (2) law-abiding. QuAIA meets both of these requirements and should, therefore, be permitted to fully participate in Pride. FURTHERMORE, apartheid IS a queer issue. A violation of human rights somewhere is a threat to human rights everywhere. Moreover, apartheid worsens already terrible conditions for LGBT people; how can we expect our LGBT brothers and sisters to achieve equality and liberation when they're trapped behind an apartheid wall and repressed by a colonialist state? Israel, being a country that fuses church and state, is rife with homophobia and violence against LGBT people. Israel, being an apartheid state, does not treat all people equally within the boundaries it controls. In short, Israel is ONE BIG LIE. QuAIA is an LGBT group; QuAIA engages in lawful political speech. QuAIA has every right to fully participate in Pride. And apartheid *is* an LGBT issue, and Israel *is* an apartheid state. See: http://tinyurl.com/iiaasahy
Rick, Toronto Ontario
05/25/10 2:39 PM EST
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This is a travesty
It doesn't matter which side of the Israeli Palestinian debate you're on, the fact is that the Pride committee has sided with money over freedom of expression. Shame! Pride IS political, and all the more so when we are under attack by the Harper gov't and right-wing religious fundamentalists. I am shocked and dismayed that the committee caved to the pressure. What will city council want to ban next year?
Val, Toronto Ontario
05/25/10 2:59 PM EST
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Whose Rainbow is it anyway?
Yahoo, Yahoo, Yahoo. Total respect for everyone who showed up and told Pride where they could shove their censorship rainbow - it only has one colour and that's green. Don't fuck with this community, because if there is anything we've fought hard for it's free speech and the right to be what we want to be when we want to be...I support QuAIA, but will not get entangled in that debate now...I think you all should just check out their website and make your decisions...While I totally understand that it was QuAIA that brought this whole issue to the foreground, this is a bigger issue - One of censorship and free speech. I know where I stand on that. Respect Pride Coalition, total respect.
roy, toronto ON
05/25/10 3:15 PM EST
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@ Rick is illogical and a censoring people again
again your censoring people who have a different opinion then you and that is also rather undemocratic and Rick your blog is not a source(how many times people tell you this?) since it seem rather bias and seems to be up to the old propaganda he always uses and Rick again your lying, Israel does have a strong LGBT community that also cares about the Rights of the Palestinian brothers and sisters there are many books on this issue about the Israeli LGBT community such as Independence Park: The Lives of Gay Men in Israel, Between Sodom and Eden: A Gay Journey Through Today's Changing Israel, and Brothers and Others in Arms do document the lives and challenges Gay Israelis face and it really no different then what we face here in Canada.
Peter from, Toronto ON
05/25/10 3:16 PM EST
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Not Political?
Does anyone really think that queer palestinians are ever able to develop a gay rights movement, engage into a debate similar to what we see in many "free" societies around civil rights and liberties while Israeli occupation is not allowing them to go to school. to learn, to breathe to have a normal life and to engage with the rest of the world??? Israeli apartheid IS a gay issue as much anything else that effects our lives as humans who carry multiple identities in every space we move in. At least it is much more of a gay issue than providing prime advertising space in the parade for the beer companies and banks (how are those gay issues?). Pride is trying to white-wash all queers in Toronto and strip us from our history as immigrants and political beings who do not identify solely as "gay". so we can all celebrate the status of queer rights in Canada (horray) and erase the struggles of our LGBT sisters and brothers back home. shame on Pride
Suhail, Toronto Ontario
05/25/10 3:39 PM EST
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Reality - Please
@ DJ, have you ever stopped to think that maybe there's MANY gay people out there in the real world that DON'T want this group to march ? Also, you can't have everything both ways. On one hand you want Toronto tax dollars and support in general from City counsel, and yet on the other hand you don't want the City of Toronto to have any requirements as to the use of that City (tax payers) money. Dude, pick a side and stick with it. And to Rick, why don't you fly a friend and yourself over to Palestine, walk hand & hand together down a street and stop a few times and give each other a little kiss on the cheek. Lets see if you make it back to Toronto. I for one, don't want ugly Middle Eastern politics in our Pride parade.
Jeff Taylor, Toronto Ontario
05/25/10 3:43 PM EST
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Peter: Easy to refute
Oh boy. He's baaack... Okay, Peter. Let's review the facts. #1, expressing disagreement is not censorship; prohibiting speech is censorship. Need a dictionary? I'll mail you one. #2, I often cite sources; my own commentaries are no exception. That said, you might take another look at my blog posting, Peter: What I've posted is not my own, but rather the research and commentaries of others -- with citations. #3, Israel is far from being a homophobia-free society. See, for example: http://tinyurl.com/25jqp7k & http://tinyurl.com/krpsop -- and, I'll add, Israel's apartheid makes already terrible conditions worse for LGBT people. That's imprisonment in homophobic conditions. Shame on Israel for its lies and crimes against humanity!
Rick, Toronto Ontario
05/25/10 3:48 PM EST
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Jeff: Here's reality for you
So, you support censorship, right? Just say it. Heck, if the Zionist/Israel Lobby can say it commends censorship (see: http://tinyurl.com/2fgmzr4), then why can't you? // I'd certainly like to visit Palestine as soon as I am able. Unfortunately, it's unlikely that Israel will permit me to enter in order to see the truth with my own eyes (see: http://tinyurl.com/2ewurzd). Furthermore, I'd also risk being murdered my Israel if I did gain entry (see: http://tinyurl.com/2ewurzd & http://tinyurl.com/7m93). Israel: All lies.
Rick, London Ontario
05/25/10 3:57 PM EST
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Money talks and BS doesn't walk at Pride this year
Here's one, Pride needs money from the City. They also need sponsors. There were no contributing sponsors other than the 2 premier ones listed until Pride made the announcement. Now there are 6 and they wouldn't be there if QuAIA were. Almost half the Councillors have expressly said they would support Mammiloti's motion and the others were non-committal, but all it would have taken was 3 out of that 24 to kill city funding for Pride. Pride is not an absolute free speech rally. How come NAMBLA isn't there anymore, then? This is not speakers corner, it's a cellebration of Gay Pride. A concept seemingly lost on a group that is expressing solidarity with homophobes and state-sanctioned murderers of gays in Gaza. QuAIA showed themselves as quite the little group of hypocrites today. Shouting down the Pride organizers and not letting them talk, while screaming about how QuAIA was being censored and denied free speech. The funny thing is, QuAIA people are too stupid to get the irony.
Scott, Toronto Ontario
05/25/10 4:01 PM EST
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Yes! More Reality! More!
If "reality" is censoring legitimate, albeit uncomfortable speech from the Pride Parade and unacceptable to MANY gays, then let's start moving on other projects asap! MANY gays would rather not see TNT MEN march in the Parade: let's ban them! MANY gays don't want to see the "Christian" Fundamentalist Conservative Party march in the Parade: Ban 'em! "Freaky" drag queens and "terrible" leatherfolk: Ban, ban! Ban anything that makes all those "respectable" faggots uncomfortable!
Dan, Toronto ON
05/25/10 4:04 PM EST
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Israel is an Apartheid State
http://www.hsrc.ac.za/Document-3230.phtml From the Human Sciences Research Council of South Africa
J Roman, Toronto Ontario
05/25/10 4:09 PM EST
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@Funny Rick
I never said Israel is not a perfect country and I do think what they do to the Palestinians is a crime but also the Palestinians are also no victim they have a lot of blood on their hands too or was it the fact that there are books on this is something you don't like? I would suggest you read them they do talk a lot what LGBT face in Israel and in the Palestinian Territories unless you are hiding something? Also the Middle East is rather homophobic as a whole but you might think that I have a Zionist mind for saying that but it is the reality in the Middle East, the whole region is rather homophobic. I wonder why many Middle Eastern Gays come here for example and bag Immigration department not to send them back when they face deportation for example. Funny Canada isn't even close to being homophobia-free society either but the next time I read about Gay Bashing on Xtra I'm reminded of this or other Crimes committed against the LGBT community here in Ontario or anywhere in Canada and funny the conditions for these attacks were created here so that homophobic conditions must of been created by the Canadian homophobic attitudes and by our culture or even the many homophobic religions we have in our country. Rick funny about the Tel Aviv attack I think we should be in solidarity with Israeli LGBT community and Rick funny how everyone on Israeli Society considered that a crime including the current PM and President. Read your link (http://tinyurl.com/krpsop ) clear states this. Also of course our Palestinian brothers and sisters since their democratically elected governments Hamas or the Palestinian National Authority seems to care less about their rights in their own society since they are considered their government and rights issues is something they might want to bring up with them after all they are democratically elected.
Peter from, Toronto ON
05/25/10 4:31 PM EST
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Scott: On the side of censorship
Stand and be counter, people. Do you support censorship, or do support freedom of expression including lawful political speech? Scott, Jeff, & Peter support censorship and therefore oppose democracy. Who else is with them?
Rick, London Ontario
05/25/10 4:32 PM EST
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Freaky drag queens??
Who you calling freaky!? Drag queens and leather folk and the bestest people. It's the nasty, mean-spirited bigots that lie about Israel, the only place in the middle east where drag queens and leather folk are safe to be out, that I don't like. You QuAIA folk will be happy to know you use exactly the same language about Israel that neo-nazis use. Between them and the Islamists who want to kill people just for being queer, QuAIA sure keeps some great company.
Slappy, toronto Ont
05/25/10 4:34 PM EST
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Israeli apartheid: One step closer to Nazi Germany
Slappy, honey, you've heard of the Warsaw Ghetto, have you (http://tinyurl.com/5l769j)? That was ethnic separation, just like Israel's apartheid. As Michael Ignatieff said, "When I looked down at the West Bank, at the settlements like Crusader forts occupying the high ground, at the Israeli security cordon along the Jordan river closing off the Palestinian lands from Jordan, I knew I was not looking down at a state or the beginnings of one, but at a Bantustan, one of those pseudo-states created in the dying years of apartheid to keep the African population under control." Israel's apartheid is just one more step towards Nazi-style genocide. And this Holocaust survivor agrees: http://tinyurl.com/yecolvq
Rick, London Ontario
05/25/10 4:41 PM EST
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Oy Vey
There was a time when lots of people wouldn't have wanted queers to march or tax dollars to go to anything to do with queer and trans events/issues. It saddens me that you have people defending Israel and people defending free speech. Whether you're for what the Israeli state is doing now or not, I can't believe that people would want to quash free speech and shame on anyone who does...Fear is what drives you and part of me understands that, but you have nothing to fear but fear itself and I can assure you if any anti-semetism ever came about at Pride, the same people that are calling for QuAIA's inclusion would be on your side as well. Grow up, avoid QuAIA if it offends you so, but stand up for Free Speech or this party will soon be over.
roy, toronto ON
05/25/10 4:41 PM EST
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Freudian slip
And by "stand and be counter," I of course meant "[s]tand and be counted." :-)
Rick, London Ontario
05/25/10 4:43 PM EST
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Leftists hate freedom
Censorship is always wrong. As amusing as it is to see one leftist group oppressing another, the willfully ignorant pro-islamification freaks should be allowed to express themselves. Israel is a beacon of hope in a medieval region.
ron, Vancouver Bc
05/25/10 4:43 PM EST
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Warsaw Ghetto???
Israel is just like Nazi Germany with the Warsaw Ghetto??? On what planet?? You don't sound like someone who is very well informed about either what is happening in Palestine OR what happened in the Warsaw Ghetto. The systematic and complete anhiliation of people because of their race? There seem to be a lot of Palestinians around for that to be happening. And there seem to be a lot of Muslims in Israel who get to vote, have free speech and are members of parliament there. Doesn't sound too much like the nazis I've heard about. But don't let the facts get in the way of your arguement, honey. I've never met anyone in QuAIA who had that problem, so why should you be the first?
Slappy, Toronto Ont
05/25/10 4:52 PM EST
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@Rick this is from Michael Ignatieff in 2010
Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff regarding Israeli Apartheid Week OTTAWA - Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff “On university campuses across the country this week, Israeli Apartheid Week will once again attempt to demonize and undermine the legitimacy of the Jewish state. It is part of a global campaign of calls for divestment, boycotts and proclamations, and it should be condemned unequivocally and absolutely. Apartheid is defined, in international law, as a crime against humanity. Israeli Apartheid Week is a deliberate attempt to portray the Jewish state as criminal. The activities planned for the week will single out Jewish and Israeli students. They will be made to feel ostracized and even physically threatened in the very place where freedom should be paramount -- on a university campus. Let us be clear: criticism of Israeli government policy is legitimate. Wholesale condemnation of the State of Israel and the Jewish people is not legitimate. Not now, not ever. The very premise of Israeli Apartheid Week runs counter to our shared values of mutual respect and tolerance, regardless of nationality, race or creed. It is an attempt to heighten the tensions in our communities around the tragic conflict in the Middle East. On behalf of the Liberal party of Canada and the Parliamentary caucus, I urge all Canadians to join with us in condemning Israeli Apartheid Week, and to reject, in principle, all forms of anti-Semitism, racism and intolerance, both within this country and around the world.” (http://www.liberal.ca/en/newsroom/media-releases/17617_statement-by-liberal-leader-michael-ignatieff-regarding-israeli-apartheid-week)
Peter from, Toronto ON
05/25/10 4:54 PM EST
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Kulanu/Hillel
When Kulanu/Hillel marches in the parade, will the group be supporting gay rights or Israel? Based on the photos of last year's Pride parade, I suggest that the group will be supporting Israel first. When party politicians participate, will they be promoting gay rights or their political parties? I suggest the latter.
SD, Toronto Ontario
05/25/10 4:57 PM EST
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Compare Israel & Nazi Germany -- with photos
Slappy, sweetie, I'll stick to the evidence. Take a look-see for yourself: http://tinyurl.com/2dujs2a -- and consider the opinion of yet another Holocaust survivor: http://tinyurl.com/27g24sd
Rick, London Ontario
05/25/10 5:15 PM EST
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You call those pictures??
Ricky, I think i like you. You're wrong about everything, but you're passionate, and I like passion in a man. But those photos have been taken in entirely different contexts. You show charred dead bodies from a Nazi crematorium and you show charred dead bodies from an air raid and they are both are going to look the same. It down't mean they are the due to similar circumstances or rationales. That you would even have to resort to that kind of attempted trickery shows how vapid your arguement is. (Don't worry, I like dumb men too as long as they're cute..and bottoms!)
Slappy, Toronto Ontario
05/25/10 5:25 PM EST
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@ Rick
really so again that could be said about any war zone, , look the same but I guess Russia is not Nazi Germany or Apartheid South Africa wait Chechnya in Pictures looks the same as the Nazi's too http://www.russian-terror-in--chechnya.blogspot.com/
Peter from, Toronto ON
05/25/10 5:27 PM EST
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Circumstances and rationales
Oh, Slappy, you want circumstances and rationales? Okay. Then I recommend you begin with Prof. Dr. Ilan Pappe's book, "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" (http://tinyurl.com/y2fxw67). Then move to Jimmy Carter's "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid" (http://tinyurl.com/2urpgv). Dr. Norman Finkelstein, esteemed scholar and son of Holocaust survivors, has also written oodles (http://tinyurl.com/8g47mf). And, of course, we couldn't leave out Prof. Dr. Chomsky (http://tinyurl.com/4u8oc). The list goes on and on. So, how's that for "vapid"? Want more? Check out Jewish Voice for Peace's reading list at: http://tinyurl.com/ydaohvt
Rick, London Ontario
05/25/10 5:33 PM EST
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Sarcasm, Slappy, sarcasm
That was sarcasm, you dizzy goof. If you cannot draw the parallel that censoring one unpopular group won't embolden others to censor other group's deemed to be "offensive" by some vocal lobby group, then you're stupid as well as dizzy. For me, I'll stick to independant media and heed the opinions of Bishop Desmond Tutu: you know, someone who lived in an apartheid regime and declared Israel and Apartheid state in 2002.
Dan, Toronto ON
05/25/10 5:37 PM EST
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On Ignatieff's "flip-flop"
I guess readers must decide for themselves. Who do you trust more: Ignatieff, professor and director of Harvard University's Carr Center for Human Rights Policy OR Ignatieff, politician and leader of the Liberal Party? Personally, something tells me that, as a wannabe Prime Minister, Ignatieff is much less immune to the aggressive tactics of the Zionist/Israel Lobby.
Rick, London Ontario
05/25/10 5:38 PM EST
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Noam Finklestein? You forgot Naomi Klein!
Ricky!! Chomsky! Finkelstein! The usual polemicists. You can find thousands who say the opposite. And Jimmy carter, from what I understand, retracted what he said about Israel and apartheid, so maybe you should take him off your list. So how does this work. You stack up a bunch of books from the Marxist-Leninists of yesteryear, and I stack up a bunch from the mainstream, and whoever has the biggest stack wins? I'd probably win that contest, but even so, that ain't how it should work.
Slappy, Toronto Ontario
05/25/10 5:41 PM EST
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@Rick
I thought this was all about the rights of Gay Palestinians and Jimmy Carter (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2009/12/jimmy_carter_apologizes_for_cr.html) I think he had a change of heart too and Rick funny about Ilan Pappe book the same can be said about Ontario natives and how Europeans took there land and such and I do agree with Ilan Pappe but the same happened here and I think there is no Pride in what he did to our Native people or how they are treated and funny how he is Israeli and senior lecturer at Haifa University you have to boycott him too and his work
Peter from, Toronto ON
05/25/10 5:42 PM EST
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two sides ?
I am neither pro-Israel or pro-Palestine, yet is seems everyone who is commenting has a “side”. Pride was unfairly put into this position by getting dragging into Politics that are so old that the people fighting for them weren’t alive when they started. For the people alive today, both sides are wrong, both sides have committed acts that are truly shameful in history, and nothing will change as long as we keep sitting here thinking that there are only two sides and forget that there are individual people involved here that grew up only knowing this conflict. As long as those people hang on to the hate they learned growing up, there will always be hate in this world. Why is the group not called “Queers for the freedom of Palestinians”? Such a name seems to speak to the supposed core value of the group. The answer IMHO, it wasn’t controversial enough to get attention. It doesn’t motivate the hate that people grew up learning. I do not disagree with the main position they have of fighting for freedom of a people who see very little of it. I do disagree with using hate to fight hate. I found that the website of QuAIA dedicates more words to justifying why Israel is bad (some of which ignore historically accepted facts by looking at one side only) than it does actually suggesting ways people can influence change for the better. Their name was chosen because they couldn’t make enough of a public point with their name without saying all of Israel and its people are the enemy. It uses the same paint brush that gets used when all terrorists are called Muslim extremists. The most frustrating part about seeing these conversations going on is both sides ignore the other side and don’t even notice when the use the exact same argument against each other. All that said, does anyone notice how quick the conversation turned to Israel vs. Palestine and very little is being said about the actual handling of the matter?
Jason, Ottawa ON
05/25/10 5:49 PM EST
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@ Rick is illogical
I guess since then Ignatieff(in 2010), and had a change a heart and so has Jimmy Carter or is it that you don't like that they changed their minds since you can't copy and paste these quotes from your blog and again go on a propaganda campaign funny the Israel Lobby does the same funny how you act just like them and censor people like them. Maybe a match made in heaven
Peter from, Toronto ON
05/25/10 5:50 PM EST
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Peter: Missing all the facts (and logic), as usual
Jimmy Carter didn't apologize for using the word "apartheid." He didn't even really "apologize." He just said "we must not permit criticisms for improvement to stigmatize Israel." And he probably said it because, at the time, his grandson was running for a Georgia state senate seat. As for Native people, I support their struggle against oppression, too -- just as I support the struggle of the Palestinians against Israel's apartheid and continued ethnic cleansing. What's your point? It is possible, you know, to support more than one struggle simultaneously. A human rights violation anywhere is a threat to human rights everywhere. As for Ilan Pappe, if you bothered to verify anything you would know that he left the University of Haifa in 2007, and he is now at the University of Exeter. He left Israel because he was basically harassed for speaking the truth -- in the same way that Israel denied entry of Dr. Finkelstein and Dr. Chomsky. You see, Israel is not a real democracy: It seeks to block and prohibit criticism and freedom of expression. Just like you.
Rick, London Ontario
05/25/10 5:50 PM EST
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The Committee could have done better
The Pride Committee should have taken themselves out of the debate. There were a number of avenues available to the committee such as calling for the City solicitor to provide clarification on the antidiscrimination policy and to confirm if a protest can be found in violation of that policy (if so should all protests be shut down in Toronto)? The City pays for protests all the time in terms of Police resources, barriers, etc. so I do not see how the saber rattling of a few councilors was able to scare the Pride committee the way it did. The City solicitor could have ended up telling council that the motion may not have stood up to a court challenge (something the gets council backing down quickly off any issue). Even if the City and some Corporate sponsors withdrew funding, than so what?! Pride isn’t just about a party and the committee forgot that today. The committee lost faith in the focus and drive our committee used to have. If this issue came up 10 years ago, there would not have been a person on the committee that would have questioned the fact that Toronto’s downtown will be shut down for Pride, with or without government permission. While I do not agree with spreading hate through free speech, the damage done by loosing free speech is so much worse. QuAIA has not crossed the line and does not promote violents. They are fighting for the rights of an oppressed group and while I disagree with their approach and one-sidedness (forgetting that there are Jewish people who do support the ideal of equality), fighting oppression is what started Pride in the first place. I think the community should write Pride to remind them that no censorship of any type should be part of the organization of Pride and if the government doesn’t like it, than the party goes back to being a protest. I’d make the trip from Ottawa to attend if that was the fight that was taking place! Those Corporate dollars are there because the people are there.
Jason, Ottawa ON
05/25/10 5:51 PM EST
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QuAIA a Harper conspiracy??
What really bugs me is that QuAIA have managed to do something to our community that Stevie Harper and his gang of backwards hicks could never have dreamed of. They have our community fighting, backbitting and insulting each other and potentially ruining Pride. And Ricky, let me apologize right now for falling into that trap. I don't really think you're dumb. I just think your arguments are a bit disingenuous, but I'm sure motivated by that sexy passion of yours. We should be sticking together as a community. But a lot of us don't like the idea of Pride being used as a platform to express hate for the one Queer-positive country in the middle east and for alienating a lot of the community. There are no end of other places you can do that. Pride doesn't need to be one of them and is the wrong place for it. Canada still has free speech, so don't get too worked up. Go stick your head out your window and shout "Israel is an Apartheid State!" If someone arrests you for that, Ricky, I'll be there with a sign protesting until you're free.
Slappy, Toronto Ontario
05/25/10 5:52 PM EST
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It's simple. Censorship: For or Against?
Let's return to the basics. To participate in Pride, a group need only be part or supportive of the LGBT community, and law-abiding. Queers Against Israeli Apartheid (QuAIA) meets all of those requirements; QuAIA is a group of LGBT people who campaign for LGBT and other human rights, and who engage in lawful political speech. To ban the use of particular lawful words -- in this case "Israeli apartheid" -- IS censorship. By definition. Our "official authority" for Pride events banned lawful speech. When an official authority bans lawful speech -- a political opinion -- that's censorship. You don't have to agree with the opinion. Maybe it will offend you. But if you ban it, you're on the side of censorship -- and in opposition to democracy. How will humanity ever determine what's true or what's right if it does not hear different opinions and vibrant debates? Censorship is willful ignorance -- and it has no place in our queer community.
Rick(y), London Ontario
05/25/10 6:00 PM EST
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I side with Pride
How about Queers For Racism, or Queers Against Quebec, or Queers For Toronto Island Airport? Just because these are queer groups doesn't make them acceptable. Gay Pride is about being GAY! Politics has no place in the parade and operational guidelines should say as much. If queers want to make a statement about Isreal -or any thing else - there are venues, newspapers, conferences, etc. Speech is not being hindered here. Diversity not adversity is what we want to celebrate.
Joe Gibbons, Toronto Ont
05/25/10 6:25 PM EST
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@ Rick
funny Rick most people who study this understand that our native peoples they were also forced off their land by a invading settler population from Europe. Are you having a hard time putting two and two together here? does anything sound the same? Funny how Israel was established is the same way this country was established and most do describe the European Colonization of the Americas as a form of ethic cleansing since most of the European Powers wanted this to happen. But all of this started out as the rights of Queer Palestinians then it seems your only blaming Israel for everything. But in 2006 Palestinians elected Hamas in Gaza and Fatah(Palestinian National Authority) I think if this was a rights issue then they should take it up with them, but they seem to care less about this issue.Oddly Israel does have a large LGBT community( you say no) and in one of your links such as the Tel Aviv Club Attack you think its a government attack on that community there. If you read your link it says how everyone including the PM, President and all major political parties including religious ones condemned this attack but since you can't read you think it was attack carried out by the government. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1203767/Police-manhunt-gunman-opened-Tel-Aviv-gay-club-killing-wounding-11.html) or (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/5960400/Police-hunt-gunman-who-attacked-Tel-Aviv-centre-for-homosexuals.html) as Benjamin Netanyahu says about this attack as "I want to condemn the shocking murder," but you keep on saying that was a policy of the Israeli State or a lone gunmen(most likely a nutcase. I really doubt that was caused by the State Policy most likely a crazy nut case and not the state. Please you should read those books I suggested it does give insight into the Israeli LGBT community or what are you hiding? and everything on the internet is not usually true most students of the arts know this.
Peter from, Toronto ON
05/25/10 6:28 PM EST
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We may have to agree to disagree
I think a lot of us, myself included, may be venting rather than persuading at this point, since no one seems to be moving away from the positions they came here with. Is it that we all have closed minds, are so convinced of our positions that we won't listen to anything that disputes them? I couldn't say. I disagree strongly that Israel practices apartheid, but I respect the rights of people to disagree with me. I don't like censorship, but I don't know if this falls into the category of what Pride is doing, because it is not a public platform for all political speech. It is an event for a not-for-profit group to celebrate the Gay community, and by definition, they have a right to say who can participate. I think you could very easily argue that vilifying a pro-queer country and by doing so, in effect supports anti-queer homophobes like Hamas, which would not really be supportive of the interests of the LGBT community. But there are very obviously different opinions about that. What is definitely true, and anyone who doubts it should talk to the Pride organizers, is that Pride costs money to put on and it was going to lose its city funding if QuAIA were allowed to participate. Ask the organizers what the sponsors were saying. Do you think Pepsi wants to be associated with anything that has an "I hate Israel" contingent? For those who say, screw the city and the sponsors, that's all good and fine. Are you going to put up the hundreds of thousands that they were? It's not 1981 anymore. Pride has grown, evolved and like it or not, become more mainstream. Maybe this means there needs to be another queer event that takes no money from anyone who isn't willing to put up with every and all messages. I think Pride is doing the right thing, for itself, the community, and regarding the issue at hand. That's my say for now - it's a beautiful evening and I'm going to go out and enjoy it. Peace all!
Slappy, Toronto Ontario
05/25/10 6:29 PM EST
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No, Joe: you side with Pride, Inc.
(Peter: I'm done responding to you. As usual, you've gone off the deep end and you're totally illogical. Get some rest, would ya?) Joe: How about one set of rules for everyone and permitting lawful political speech? You are factually incorrect; Pride is not just about "being gay." If that's the case, then why are their banks, beer companies, churches, political parties, etc., in the parade? Answer: Because you're wrong. To be in the parade, a group need only be part or supportive of the LGBT community and to be law-abiding. Banning a group, or its choice of words, because of a political disagreement is censorship. Therefore, what you are really arguing for is censorship. That is the central question, here: Do you support censorship, or don't you?
Rick, London Ontario
05/25/10 6:35 PM EST
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Slappy: Faulty logic, misguided perspective
(1) Just compare Israel's policies and practices with the internationally accepted definition of "apartheid." I'll make the research easy for you. See: http://tinyurl.com/37wn5q8 (2) Pride receives public funding. Pride is an event that happens publicly. Pride Toronto, Inc. is, ostensibly, a public face of the LGBT community. As the official authority and public face overseeing Pride events with public money on public streets, it is banning lawful speech because of political disagreement. When an official/public authority bans words, that's censorship. (3) Israel is hardly "pro-queer." It is a state founded on religion with religious elements that strongly oppose queer rights. It is not a homophobia-free society. And Israel does not extend equality rights to all LGBT people within the boundaries that Israel controls. Personally, I cannot call that "pro-queer." (4) I do not support Hamas or its homophobia. Hamas exists, in large part, because of Israeli apartheid. End apartheid, begin to dismantle Hamas, work towards ending homophobia. Keep apartheid, keep Hamas, guarantee that homophobia is entrenched and that the many LGBT people live in absolute terror every single day. (5) We don't need government or corporate funding to have Pride. The city money, in particular, is a drop in the bucket. I'd rather have free speech than corporate sponsorship. My "mainstream" includes ALL political opinions.
Rick, London Ontario
05/25/10 6:45 PM EST
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@Rick is illogical you can't read your own link
as usual you're totally illogical by not doing so and they are good historical examples even if you are that blind from it. Read your link that comes from your blog funny how it disproves what you say (http://tinyurl.com/krpsop ) its has lots of Pictures of this attack but read the story and the people condemning the attack such as the ultra-Orthodox Shas party,The mayor of Tel Aviv, Ron Huldai, Opposition leader Tzipi Livni, and Nitzan Horowitz, Israel's only openly