Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:33 PM

Congratulations to Pride Toronto for recognizing and acting upon concerns by LGBT, Queer and community members. Now is an opportunity to continue a conversation and dialogue on the future of our Pride based upon both our history and our future as we move forward to welcome World Pride 2014.

Susan Gapka
Candidate Ward 27

Susan Gapka

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:57 PM

The Xtra story states that 1,500 people joined the Facebook group Don't Sanitize Pride. Queers Against Israeli Apartheid will again march against Israel in this year's Pride parade. I wonder if Stephen Harper has received 1,500 letters from the same people opposing Uganda's anti-gay bill or if gay activists will march against Uganda in this year's Pride parade.

Pete

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:49 PM

What a sad day, when Pride Toronto allows itself to be bullied by those who use 'free speech' as an excuse to demonize Israel.

Peter

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:24 PM

@Peter - as opposed to those who claim that criticizing the decisions and policy of a POLITICAL ENTITY (ie a country) is a direct criticism of cultural/ethnic group?

George

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:25 PM

The simple facts are this. First, the LGBTQ community will not tolerate censorship; we understand that our struggles and survival depend upon the right to freedom of expression and that disagreements are essential to human advancement. Second, the LGBTQ community is far too smart and educated to succumb to Zionist propaganda; while we may not all agree with every criticism of Israel's government, we understand that speaking out against the actions of a state is NOT the same thing as spewing racism/hate towards a group of people. In short, the LGBTQ community knows censorship, knows propaganda, and knows hate. We will not be fooled by expensive corporate public relations firms or by external lobby efforts -- however aggressive they may be. It will be a truly sad day when Pride is driven by threatening propaganda and money-hungry corporations -- and not by the community. However, something tells me that the community won't let that happen -- and, personally speaking, that takes my PRIDE to a whole new level!

Rick

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:38 PM

This is a good move by Pride Toronto. I can't imagine how the review panel would have actually decided which signs and messages 'passed' and which ones would be banned. It's not Pride's role to decide what is hate speech anyway - it's the role of the police. Anyway, looking forward to a wonderful Pride Week 2010!

Doug Kerr

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:45 PM

Rick's comment that "the LGBTQ community will not tolerate censorship" is incorrect. Gay activists in Canada have regularly taken action (e.g., protests, human rights complaints, lobbying for hate crime legislation, etc.) against homophobic speech.

Pete

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:55 PM

Nobody's falling for your logical fallacies, Pete. Don't waste your time. I think/hope that everybody agrees that defamation and hate are unacceptable and should be illegal -- as they are. Harassment is also legally defined and prohibited. To repeat: Criticizing a government's policies is not defamation, hate, or harassment. Spare us.

Rick

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:03 PM

@ Pete. The sad thing is when people criticize a state for its regressive use of force and power against another group they get charged with anti-Semitic acts. In the case of Israel, there is a machine there to protect it at all costs. I hate to bring out the "Jews are powerful" line, but they are. And they have a whole network of people that work to protect the reputation of Israel whenever the country's politics are criticized. Pride is a volunteer organization. They don't have the funds or the infrastructure to take on the Zionist machine (god I hate calling it that, and if you can think of another name for it - let me know.) This time around it's the Zionists who are the bullies...and where ever that comes from I understand. Hey you guys had some rough times last century. But now that's not the case. Freedom of Speech, no more bullying guys. And oh yes, Happy Pride.

pete 2

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:23 PM

Rick, you gave me a great idea for my anti-QuAIA T-shirt for Pride. The T-shirt would say: "Don't condemn Israel. Condemn Muslim countries that kill gays." These words would then be followed by this picture:
slog.thestranger.com/.../irangayteens1.jpg

Pete

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:38 PM

Pete..see you're mixing it up. I don't think anyone would be against your T-shirt. I would suggest you be more specific in your choice of muslim countries, maybe a list of them. They are brutal. I don't think there are the equivilant Muslcim groups who would lobby Pride and threaten it and its funders though. Your tshirt illustrates the heart of the matter. No one is saying Muslims or Jews are against the existence of the States of Israel or the States of Iraq, Iran etc. You're saying that these governments, political entities are fucked up when it comes to their policies. You can wear that Tshirt, you might get flake from some people who think you're being anti-Muslim, but we all know that you're trying to make a statement and seeing as we're all for free speech...we can only say - GO FOR IT and HAPPY PRIDE. Oh and, I'm Jewish too.

pete 2

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:06 PM

Israel is hardly a bastion of equality rights for gays. Israel's laws only apply to some; others are excluded on the basis of ethnicity. Israel's orthodox Jewish fundamentalists are also known to be very homophobic; recent anti-gay murders were perpetrated by such fundamentalists. ( See: http://tinyurl.com/kkhku2 ) Further, Israel's destruction of Palestinian's social conditions certainly doesn't create fertile ground for LGBT Palestinians struggling against oppression. What promotes gay rights? Meeting people's basic needs, education, social welfare, modernization, secularization, etc. Does Israel help the Palestinian people gain these advancements? No. Quite the contrary. Israel repeatedly smashes them into the ground, ensuring the LGBT people suffer immensely. This is not about attacking Jewish people. This is about legitimate criticism of a state's war crimes, crimes against humanity, and the using of "gay rights" as a thin propaganda veneer to distract from its crimes.

Rick

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:04 PM

@Rick

Here's Israeli Law and notice the apply's to ALL part not just some
www.knesset.gov.il/.../eng_mimshal_yesod1.htm

Charles

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:35 PM

Rick

"Further, Israel's destruction of Palestinian's social conditions certainly doesn't create fertile ground for LGBT Palestinians struggling against oppression. What promotes gay rights? Meeting people's basic needs, education, social welfare, modernization, secularization, etc. Does Israel help the Palestinian people gain these advancements? No. Quite the contrary. Israel repeatedly smashes them into the ground, ensuring the LGBT people suffer immensely."

WHAT ANOTHER QuAIA lie
In the Palestinan Gays have to suffer under something call Islamic Law which being Gay is a NO NO, Israeli law is not religious can be found here:www.knesset.gov.il/.../eng_mimshal_yesod1.htm
then could you explain why Israel does have openly gay members of the Military and if they really do so why is MK Nitzan Horowitz a openly gay MK????

So if the Tel Aviv night club shooting seems to be your only example that could happen here and it has happened in the United States such as a bombing a gay night club in Atlanta in 1997?????

you also said "Israel's laws only apply to some; others are excluded on the basis of ethnicity." WRONG another QuAIA disinformation, Arabs in Israel are equals and full representation in the Israeli government parties such as Ra`am-Ta`al, Hadash are examples of that full representation and here's the link (www.knesset.gov.il/.../mkindex_current_eng.asp

unless the still claim that"laws only apply to some; others are excluded on the basis of ethnicity."

Charles

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 7:04 PM

pete 2, thanks for your suggestion for my anti-QuAIA T-shirt for Pride. Since the front of the T-shirt is full (see my earlier post), I would put your suggested list on the back. The back of the T-shirt would read as follows: “Muslim countries that kill gays: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, United Arab Emirates, Sudan, Nigeria, Mauritania, Somalia”. QuAIA and their gay Leftist allies will march against Israel, but not these countries. I don’t see how that makes, in your words, a “Happy Pride”.

Pete

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:31 PM

You guys are all missing is the point. No one is condemning legitimate criticism of Israel, though we could have an entire separate discussion of whether it belongs in a gay pride parade. It is the libelous branding of Israel as an apartheid state that promotes hatred. Don't bother quoting Desmond Tutu or listing your examples of discrimination. The way 99% of us understand apartheid is by the way it was defined by South Africa, with across the board discrimination based on race. This does not describe Israel.

Peter

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:41 PM

Israel pretends to be a liberal democracy that upholds human rights; it uses gay rights as an example. I say: Not in my name!

As I said before, Israel is no bastion of equality. And since Charles wants another example, see: http://tinyurl.com/yce3y6m . Further, it is plainly clear that Israel is "a nation of unequal citizens"; see: http://tinyurl.com/yb83qgq . Israel repeatedly violates international law, it recently faked passports to murder someone in another country (resulting in rifts with the UK and France, among others), it has committed both war crimes and crimes against humanity, and it is engaged in an illegal occupation -- which it is expanding (resulting in a rift with its #1 sponsor, the US). Israel is, in short, a rogue state. It is creating instability in the Middle East and threatening prospects for peace.

As for QuAIA, it is full of activists who oppose human rights abuses around the world -- not just in Israel. Progressive and queer activists oppose all fundamentalisms, whether religious (e.g., Orthodox Judaism, evanvelical Christianity, Islamic fundamentalism) or political (e.g., Zionism, neoconservative). Such fundamentalisms threaten human rights and the well-being of LGBT people. Across multiple movements and collectives, we fight human rights abuses of all kinds.

We march against Israel in response to its obvious and offensive propaganda, the aggressive intimidation tactics of its lobbyists in North America, and their attempts to stifle free speech and debate. Pressuring Israel to uphold human rights is not anti-Semitism; it's demanding that a supposedly liberal democracy meet some basic standards of a liberal democracy. And who agrees? Increasingly, more and more people are waking up to the reality. And that is precisely why the Zionists have launched a full frontal worldwide propaganda assault -- because, as their twisted logic and lies crumble away, the painful truth is exposed. Ethnic cleansing. Apartheid. War crimes. Imperialism.

The accusation of "anti-Semitism" rings hollow -- especially when organizations like Independent Jewish Voices and Jewish Voice for Peace are speaking the truth. Or scholars and journalists like Norman Finkelstein, Ilan Pappe, and Naomi Klien. Do they, as Jewish people, hate Jews? Their families and friends? Their ancestry? Are we really supposed to believe that? Of course they don't. In fact, they speak the truth because the understand that the spectre of anti-Semitism is the life support of Zionism. Without the spectre of anti-Semistism, Zionism cannot justify its project of colonization, domination, and decimation. Through history, Zionists have walked hand-in-hand with anti-Semites; they have enabled the racists.

I oppose racistm. Therefore, I oppose anti-Semitism AND Zionism. And, as a gay man and activist, I will not sit silently by as the Zionists use the painful and trying struggles of LGBT people against oppression as a propaganda veneer for human rights abuses. NOT IN MY NAME.

Rick

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:36 PM

@Rick

Wow so what's your point? Palestinians are govern under the Palestinian National Authority which is recognized by Israel, by Canada, by the United States, and the EU
Newsflash
Wow and I going to quote I rather wise man

"When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews, You are talking anti-Semitism.-- Martin Luther King, Jr.

and also Israel government condemns all attacks on Gay community in is even after the Tel Aviv night Club one Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressed shock, and called for tolerance. He said the shooting is a violation of Israel's democratic values. and Nitzan Horowitz, Israel's only openly gay member of parliament, condemned the shooting as a "hate crime".
He called it "without a doubt the biggest ever attack on the Israeli gay community"."We are all in shock,"

and that's not offensive propaganda it was even in the link that you provided and the other one from Ynet even proves this
and also if this was true then why does Israel allows openly gay members of the military, recognizes same sex unions,and all allowed under Israeli law

Charles

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:37 PM

@Rick

Zionists have walked hand-in-hand with anti-Semites; they have enabled the racists.

what Anti Semites??????
Most had viewed Zionism as a Jewish liberation such as the Nazis', and due oppose Zionism so does the KKK and either aren't gay friendly and the QuAIA is a CUPE Ontario front the Logo on the QuAIA website kind of gives it away???? and CUPE Ontario is a labor union not a gay rights group. and Rick Please read up on Israeli Law or was it the part where its says "it applies to all" and I really dare you to say this to Gay Palestinians since you seem to openly support their oppresses in beyond reason

Charles

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 10:44 PM

pete
the best pride day would be a pride where you didn't have to wear that tshirt and just go shirtless.

Also, I don't think that square dancing has anything to do with being gay, so I'm advocating for gay squaredancers to be removed from the parade. Right? NO! And if a bunch of queers want to bring light to the policies in Israel, let them. They aren't saying Israel is doing bad things to queers, they are saying that Israel is doing bad things. So relax Pete and Charles. Wear what you want to wear, do what you want to do...just remember that the battle isn't one you want to fight so don't fight it. No one is advocating for the end of Israel. Don't go and show me a few people who do or else I show you a few squaredancers, because unfortunately they exist. My heart goes out to anyone who wants to make the world a better place. I can understand the paranoia that Jews have, shit...it wasn't a good last century. But know that any progressive movements that happen in Israel will only be for good. Unless you think the settlers should settle, the wall should go up and Palestinians should go with out the resources they have and should have. And yes, have a happy Pride and stop fearing and hating Muslims. Oh yes, I'm Muslim too.

pete 2

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 11:31 PM

Charles:

I refer you to the following two articles.

#1:

"Anti-Semitism: Zionism’s Indispensable Alibi"
http://www.countercurrents.org/ocathail180310.htm

Quote: "If Zionist extremists can't provoke the desired level of anti-Semitism to advance their goals, they are even prepared to fake it."

#2:

"Israel's apologists and the Martin Luther King Jr. hoax"
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article2356.shtml

Quote: "That advocates of Israel have relied on fabricated and out-of-context quotations from a leading moral figure of yesteryear only underscores the absurdity of the general point that all opposition to a Jewish state in a diverse land is anti-Semitic."

Enjoy.

Rick

Wednesday, March 24, 2010 12:35 AM

@ Rick
your quoting the electronic intifada? sorry but that a example of the Palestinian Propaganda Machine and more proof that QuAIA supports Jihad and wants a open war and that website as with many of your example has nothing to due with gay rights and according to Palestine Note:
"the The Electronic Intifada symbolizes everything that has played a role in the failure during the past century of the failure of the Palestinians to achieve statehood. The Electronic Intifada operates from under a rock of conspiring to bring down anyone, especially other Palestinians who dare to express views that challenge the failed rejectionist zealotry."
palestinenote.com/.../...and-selfish-politics.aspx

So why are you people trying to bring a Middle Eastern War into the Gay community and it another reason the QuAIA is discredited and did you even read Israeli Law??? or was it the part of IT APPLIES TO ALL that you did not land like

QuAIA= Jihad and not gay rights and the electronic-intifada was a link on the website another non Gay rights group that only adds to the political agenda of the QuAIA as its not a gay rights group but rather using it as a cover and
PLEASE Dr. King was a wise man so I would listen to him

Charles

Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:23 AM

Charles: EI is the medium; the medium is irrelevant. What of the message? You seem to enjoy logical fallacies -- as does the Zionist movement in general. Do you think the Jewish members of QuAIA are also seeking "jihad"? Actually, I think this is where our exchange must end.

Rick

Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:59 AM

Too bad they backed down all because the gay version of the Tea Bagger Movement bullied them into submission. It's not censorship when an organization that hosts an event wants to *review* the signage included in that event. Pride is still going to get blamed when the vast majority of spectators and participants reject what the festival is turning into. I also think it's a huge slap in the face to the pioneers of our movement, that instead of honouring those who stood up for us when the times weren't so accomodating we give a free lunch to those who have contributed nothing.

Ryan

Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:10 AM

It is not an "organization" that "hosts" the "event".

It is the entire community celebrating its achievements.

Exactly how many "pioneers of our movement" have you consulted, Ryan?

Personally, I am well acquainted with many of them. They are pro-liberation and anti-censorship. And they are often marching with groups like QuAIA because the understand the interconnectedness of oppressions and the meaning of solidarity.

Rick

Wednesday, March 24, 2010 9:57 AM

Rick

the word intifada gives it away and it's also a middle eastern war that the QuAIA wants to bring to Pride more evidence that it not a gay rights groups but a Jihad anti Israel group

Charles

Wednesday, March 24, 2010 12:07 PM

Ryan you got it backwards, the tea bagger movement in the US would've certainly supported censorship of politically incorrect views, they're all about trying to silence those they disagree with. Anyone who supports censoring people is totally out of touch with the gay rights movement, those of us who fought for our equal rights since we have the experience of being censored ourselves all too often in the past and it continues even to this day, just look at the new citizenship guide for one example. If anything it seems to be those who have never had to fight for our rights, those who have never experienced being censored themselves and who have almost always got their own way who are the pro-censorship lobby in this case, backed up by powerful lobby groups who have the full support of gov't, what have they contributed to the gay rights movement? When we were taking to the streets demanding equality many of those weren't even born yet or were children with no idea of what was going on. Censorship has no valid place in society especially within the LGBT community against our own people where it is even more offensive than when used against us by anti-gay bigots. If defense of ones point of view requires that you silence those who disagree then that point of view doesn't deserve to be defended at all since censorship has no place in a free and just society. No one has to agree with what others have to say and that certainly isn't justification for silencing them.

Rich

Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:12 PM

Charles: The word "intifada" simply means "uprising". It served as a rallying cry in the late 1980s against Israel's *illegal* occupation of Palestine. Thus, I'm not sure I understand your objection to the term -- unless you simply wish to deny or distract from the truth, as seemingly all Zionists like to do.

Rick

Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:02 PM

@ Rick
The word "intifada" simply means "uprising". It served as a rallying cry in the late 1980s against Israel's *illegal* occupation of Palestine.
_______________________________________________________

Another Reason that the QuAIA is not a gay rights group and is a Anti Israel Group that has NOTHING to do with gay rights you just proving more and more that it has no Place in Pride and intifada had killed many people and a lot were not even Israelis and it also proves that they are not peaceful but also agrees with violence another example how it not a gay rights group just an anti Israel group that wants to bring a Middle Eastern War to the Gay community but if you want to do that then go to Gaza or the West Bank and join them.

Charles

Wednesday, March 24, 2010 4:54 PM

@ Rick

and it also sounds that the QuAIA is also has declared Jihad or outright war and everyone in the West knows what they always turn out to be. Also another reason why they are not a Gay Rights Group and Rick I have studied many groups like these and I bet the Leadership are Police informants or even the RCMP and this group sounds like the ones I've personally studied, our manifesto is just one example.

Charles

Wednesday, March 24, 2010 4:05 PM

Charles,

QuAIA = QUEERS Against Israeli Apartheid. For more information, see: http://queersagainstapartheid.org/

Also, some reading for you:

(1.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia

(2.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy

(3.) rabble.ca/.../coming-out-against-israeli-apartheid-case-solidarity

Rick

Wednesday, March 24, 2010 5:55 PM

@ Rick

I smell Police informant in this organization and yes the RCMP does have a long History of this

books.google.ca/books

utpjournals.metapress.com/.../

www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst?docId=5002108676

Interesting this group just might be the topic of my next thesis paper I clearly see a connection of this and History Repeating itself. the QuAIA sounds like one and Yes I'm rather familiar on how it was "officially" founded with all that CUPE Ontario Money too and but then again Rick who is wearing the Tin foil hats then???

Charles

Wednesday, March 24, 2010 5:47 PM

@ Rick

Did I just expose the QuAIA and their true Agenda after all since you did resort to personal attacks then I must have since that what groups like this do when they are exposed? wow very interesting

Charles

Tuesday, March 30, 2010 5:11 PM

@ Pete:

You wrote: "It is the libelous branding of Israel as an apartheid state that promotes hatred. Don't bother quoting Desmond Tutu or listing your examples of discrimination."

Uh huh. So now YOU understand apartheid better than Desmond Tutu? Riiiiiiiiiiight...

... rolling my eyes.....

Nathanial

Thursday, April 1, 2010 1:48 PM

Okay, then let's set aside Desmond Tutu just for a moment.

How about Israel's defence minister, Ehud Barak?

"As long as in this territory west of the Jordan river there is only one political entity called Israel it is going to be either non-Jewish, or non-democratic. If this bloc of millions of ­Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state."
www.guardian.co.uk/.../barak-apartheid-palestine-peace

Or how about Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff?

"When I looked down at the West Bank, at the settlements like Crusader forts occupying the high ground, at the Israeli security cordon along the Jordan river closing off the Palestinian lands from Jordan, I knew I was not looking down at a state or the beginnings of one, but at a Bantustan, one of those pseudo-states created in the dying years of apartheid to keep the African population under control."
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/apr/19/israel3

So, I gather Barak and Ignatieff should expect to be sued for libel and charged for hate...?

Rick